E30 M3 vs. Scion FR-S: The musings of a bored Opponaut.

"Street Surgeon" (coryislost)
07/02/2015 at 23:01 • Filed to: None

So after watching the brief E30 M3 video Jalopnik put up I was intrigued. I mean, I’m sure the car is an absolute blast to drive and deserves the status and regard that people hold for it, but how would or can it compare to something like the Scion FR-S?

So with at least a whole hour or so of interwebz research I was able to come up with some rough figures and specs for both cars. Interestingly enough, they’re very, very closely matched and to be honest I was a bit surprised. I have to admit, after putting this together I’ll definitely hold the Toybarus with a little higher respect.

I’d really love, love, love to see a comparison video pitting the two against each other!

Edit>>> Holy moly...... Apparently such a video basically already exists. LOL. Though, after watching it they really were just comparing the Scion and VW, a more in-depth Jalop video may still be necessary!

DISCUSSION (20)

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Street Surgeon
07/02/2015 at 23:09

Having driven both stock FRS and E30 M3, I have to say that the Toyobaru is a much more fun car to drive

Street Surgeon > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
07/02/2015 at 23:19

“Much” more fun? Really? In what way? I’ve test driven an FR-S and it was fun enough but the lack of grunt just pushed me away. Of course, this wasn’t on a track it was just a bit of city driving, some hard merging, and going through a cloverleaf so perhaps not the cars natural (track) habitat. I’ve never driven the E30 M3 but I would have guessed that would be more fun just from all the circle-jerking surrounding that car!

Opposite Locksmith > Street Surgeon
07/02/2015 at 23:26

All this tells me is numbers ain't everything

M54B30 > Street Surgeon
07/02/2015 at 23:56

Desirability (0-10): M3 (10) FRS (ehh...3?)

Percentage of flat-brim D-bag owners: M3 (10%) FRS (70%+)

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > M54B30
07/03/2015 at 00:12

Unfortunately, D-bags have good taste in cars sometimes.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Street Surgeon
07/03/2015 at 00:17

In stock form, the E30 M3 is quite underwhelming....mainly because it’s so hyped.

the FA20 is a better motor than the S14B25. The Scion is lighter, and the steering is much more direct, even though the E30 wins on feedback. The E30 steering is very slow on-center

The seating position on the Scion feels sportier because the hip-to-heel height is lower (read: better for a sports) and the Scion puts you closer to the ground

On the handling dept, the Scion is more tossable due to its CoG being lower. In stock form, the E30 has lots more body roll too, and due to its fairly shitty rear trailing axle suspension, it has lots of dynamic toe gain.

904 GTS > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
07/03/2015 at 01:03

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Forgetful > Street Surgeon
07/03/2015 at 01:08

You completely missed using the FR-S for what it was designed for, and had you tested an E30 the same way you’d come away with a similar impression. Both cars needs to been thrown around a bit to experience their limits, where you'll find that the 86 is brilliantly balanced.

Street Surgeon > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
07/03/2015 at 01:12

Well, the S14B25 only came in the later 2.5 evo model and was rated (if wikipedia is to be believed) at 238/177 so I’d give that the nod any day over the FA20, but the S14B23 at 192/177 seems to be every bit the motor the FA20 is with the addition of 20ft/lb! Of course.... Flat motor = lower center of gravity, plus direct injection for mpg’s and response, etc. etc. If nothing else it’s both newer, more efficient, and apparently performs about the same albeit with more displacement.

Yeah really after looking through the numbers, watching the video, and seeing the comparisons it looks like the FR-S is basically a hatchback E30 M3, and then some for much, much less. It will be interesting to see how revered this car becomes over time, or to see if it becomes the next beat to crap S-chassis. Of course, the 350Z is kind of the next S-chassis in my own opinion but that’s for a different thread. :)

Street Surgeon > Forgetful
07/03/2015 at 01:17

Oooooh I’d say I managed to throw it around quite a bit more than what the salesman would have liked :) Mostly on that cloverleaf which we couldn’t seem to escape despite multiple attempts heh. I mean, it wasn’t a track day or anything but yanno.

Street Surgeon > M54B30
07/03/2015 at 01:25

Well, flat brims, gauged ears, scruffy beards, and monster decals :D

E92M3 > Street Surgeon
07/03/2015 at 01:39

Now that you put it this way...I’ll never be able to look at the E30 M3 the same way again.

I haven’t driven an FRS/BRZ but I was surprised by it’s performance at a recent trackday. The way people complain about it’s lack of power I expected them frankly to be in the way. I would guess they were only 2 seconds a lap slower than I was. That 2 seconds was made on the long straight. The rest of the course we were pretty much dead even. I would pull slightly exiting a turn, but they would make it back up on the next corner entry. One guy was on his 2nd motor though. He says they have oil starvation issues that aren’t solved by a baffled pan, and once his warranty is up he’s getting rid of it. Apparently it’s happened to several tracked Toybarus.

M54B30 > Street Surgeon
07/03/2015 at 02:43

“Yeah bro it’s a stage 3 which is like 650 horsepower. Wasn’t enough though so i added a sick exhaust from eBay so I’m probably pushing 900 at the wheels.”

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > 904 GTS
07/03/2015 at 09:44

Very true.... but i have to note that the E36 M3 in bone stock form is also much more fun too compared to its father

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Street Surgeon
07/03/2015 at 09:46

meh, typo... still you asked me and I spoke from firsthand experience an answer to your question.

Plus the FA20 has less displacement than the S14B23

Street Surgeon > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
07/03/2015 at 11:00

Yeah I haven’t driven both and definitely believe what you’re saying. 20ft/lb is nothing to scoff at especially if there isn’t a whole lot to work with in the first place but ultimately if I had to buy one of the two it would definitely be the Toybaru with it’s warranty, cheap parts, 20+ years of refinement etc. but all the fun of an E30 M3 or more.

I suspect the FA having less tq has to do with the displacement vs. it’s S14 counterpart. Did I say it had more? Oops, I made the spreadsheet I know it had more! :D Still, thanks for the contribution I was looking for someone who had driven both!

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Street Surgeon
07/03/2015 at 11:50

No problem.

For the record, I’ve owned two bone stock E36 M3s... Neither ended up stock when they left my possesion LOL

Tareim - V8 powered > E92M3
07/06/2015 at 13:51

they’ve obviously not got the right type of baffled oil pan then, yes with simple baffled one it still can cause oil starvation under certain circumstances such as hard cornering

DeLM > Street Surgeon
03/24/2016 at 13:45

Thanks for the post, just made me feel a hell of lot more proud of my little lightly modded Miata! Seeing how a friendly guy in a stock frs went “touge” with me on the “Dragon” last month i disappeared when in front and he couldn’t break away from me when he was leading. no real power mods(just a carbon cowl snorkel,k&n airfilter and exhaust) , just suspension and tires and brakes. would like to think I would do the same to and E30 now. muahahahahha

Street Surgeon > DeLM
03/24/2016 at 20:13

Heh, I must have been pretty bored that night.... Glad it entertained!